All things Grateful Dead.

[Jim]

But his slide adventures we fans were subject to and his piercingly angular tone in the late 80's were hard to take, I'll admit.

I would agree with this. His slide playing was awful. It was okay when he would just throw in a lick here and there but he had no business taking solos.

[MormonMatthew]

I respectfully disagree. After playing 2300+ shows and countless more hours together, I'm fairly positive he knew where things were headed on most nights or had as good of an idea as anyone.

You can't play with someone that long and have no clue what they are doing or where they are going.

While I, and almost every other Salt Lake City-area Deadhead alive today has known for many years that Bob Weir the person is a evidently a pretty nasty piece of work (long story, but it involved a married, although now thankfully EX-married couple that I am acquainted with) I think that Bob Weir the musician is a fine, if unspectacular rhythm guitarist, a natural, charismatic frontman and also an incredibly talented songwriter, and I firmly believe that the Grateful Dead would never have achieved the incredible level of musical virtuosity and eventual commercial success that they did if Bob hadn't been a part of the equation...

Hard to understand Deadheads who hate Bob's music, although apparently there are plenty of them out there.

[bennyboy]

I think Bob is the most amazing guitar player. Nobody even comes close to what he does. Seen people try but they just don't make it. The way he would hold off the obvious and play something you weren't expecting.....I even grew to love his slide playing, after a while, 12-28-79 Sugaree is amazing.

[Lit]

I respectfully disagree. After playing 2300+ shows and countless more hours together, I'm fairly positive he knew where things were headed on most nights or had as good of an idea as anyone.

You can't play with someone that long and have no clue what they are doing or where they are going.

I guess it was the suggestion that his "strong leading tone...necessarily" took Jerry's solos somewhere else delightful--with Bob all the while "playing" coy and clueless--that stuck in my craw.

I never said Bob had no clue what Jerry was doing or where he was going, but I did get a chuckle out of his suggestion that he merely acted like he didn't have one, and then--Bam!--he arrived to be there to lead the way to the new, delightful path.

I fully agree that Bob was integral to the Grateful Dead sound and find it inconceivable that Jerry would have suffered a talentless fool alongside him. I also admit that Bobby has far more good Grateful Dead songs than bad ones. The majority of his songs probably remain more like sorbet to me; a palate cleanser between Jerry courses.

But the handful of his tunes that I really disliked (e.g., "Victim or the Crime," "Picasso Moon") or just became screaming, hackneyed caricatures (e.g., "New Minglewood Blues," "Hell in a Bucket") left pretty indelible impressions of buzz kill.

I think Chop's description of his "piercingly angular" tone in the late 80s is spot-on, and unfortunately '83 to '93 was the heyday of my touring, so that was smack in the middle of it and it is hard to shake as a memory.

And as for Bobby in the 80s generally and memories that are hard to shake, I mean, please remember that this really happened:

[Kemp]

I don't know anywhere near as much about The Dead as many of you folks do. I Only went to three concerts and only have a few albums/discs and never crossed over into becoming a Deadhead, but I always really dug them, and still do. When the mood is right, they are the only thing that will do. I love rhythm guitar. Get into it more than I do lead. I think Bobby contributed a hell of a lot to the direction that the band went at any given show. For me, Phil defines the band more than Jerry.

[McGregor]

Bobby should use some of his Fare Thee Well money and see if he can get that permanently removed from the internet. haha That's certainly a piece of work.



The shows aren't far off now. I'm starting to get excited to see them. Looking forward to seeing what they do with some of those tunes.

[Guest]

I like Bobby tunes, but let's not act like his terribleness is limited to Bobby and the Midnites. He hasn't exactly knocked the cover off the ball with RatBob.

[IndyChris]

That video has left me speachless. Holy cow, glad I haven't seen that before and I will endeavor to drink a 5th of Parker's tonight to try and wash it from my brain.

As far as the Kreutzman book, I had no idea he was such a jerk. I had heard stories about the crotch punching and what not, but thought they were over done. When I read the book, I came across thinking this guy is a major d-bag. I'm glad I didn't know as much back when I was seeing them (early 90s in my late teens) so I could just sit back and enjoy the music. Anymore, I find the 2 drummer thing completely annoying as there is no tight beat to get behind. I tend to listen mostly to early 70s Dead with no Hart for that reason. I popped in the Englishtown 77 show yesterday and the drums made me shut it off after the first set. Just so distracting. Looking forward to the FTW shows, but not expecting anything dynamite. I bet the lot is going to be off the chain though. I hope they have lots of EMT's ready because I suspect there are going to be a number of older Deadheads who have not partied like that in 20+ years.

[20-20]

this post will be referring to the "Bobby" video and the associated responses and is meant to be nothing more than some thoughts that flashed through my mind as I watched the clip (for the first time in years) after having read all of the posts that made reference to the "awfulness" of it.
1) let's get this out of the way first...no it is not a 20 minute extended jam with typical Robert Hunter allegorical sketches thrown in for drug infused contemplation or twirling.
2) Nor is it particularly good music.
3) Those two points having been dispensed with, I think much of an individuals response to viewing will be generational. People of my age were brought up in a time when we were proud to be "Americans" and what our country had just helped to accomplish on the world stage was a point of pride. The notion of "I want to live in America" or be an "American" was a given. As time went on it became a rite of passage and a point of honor to distrust, dislike and disdain all things American....but not of course to the point of becoming an ex-patriot.
Patriotism is about as un-hip as it gets in most of the popular culture unless something like 9/11 occurs and then there is an short lived time frame where it becomes all right to "rally around the flag", but that is short lived. As I started with, I think that is just a generational thing for the most part and I am not attempting to make demons or belittle people who have just grown up in a certain epoch. I am decidedly "not hating" just some random thoughts that occurred.
31/2) Bobby is decidedly "Californian" and this is clearly an imitative Beach Boy video/mood replete with car culture-beach-fun in the sun.
4)What the "F" do I know? Move along folks....there is nothing to see here.

[groovy1967]

How low were your musical standards if you willingly attended a Bobby & The Midnites show?

Which one of you will admit to being there?

[Lit]

this post will be referring to the "Bobby" video and the associated responses and is meant to be nothing more than some thoughts that flashed through my mind as I watched the clip (for the first time in years) after having read all of the posts that made reference to the "awfulness" of it.
1) let's get this out of the way first...no it is not a 20 minute extended jam with typical Robert Hunter allegorical sketches thrown in for drug infused contemplation or twirling.
2) Nor is it particularly good music.
3) Those two points having been dispensed with, I think much of an individuals response to viewing will be generational. People of my age were brought up in a time when we were proud to be "Americans" and what our country had just helped to accomplish on the world stage was a point of pride. The notion of "I want to live in America" or be an "American" was a given. As time went on it became a rite of passage and a point of honor to distrust, dislike and disdain all things American....but not of course to the point of becoming an ex-patriot.
Patriotism is about as un-hip as it gets in most of the popular culture unless something like 9/11 occurs and then there is an short lived time frame where it becomes all right to "rally around the flag", but that is short lived. As I started with, I think that is just a generational thing for the most part and I am not attempting to make demons or belittle people who have just grown up in a certain epoch. I am decidedly "not hating" just some random thoughts that occurred.
4)What the "F" do I know? Move along folks....there is nothing to see here.

I believe Yao Ming credits that video for his inspiration to play basketball in America.

[20-20]

I believe Yao Ming credits that video for his inspiration to play basketball in America.

yeah, that and being 7'6

[Jim]

How low were your musical standards if you willingly attended a Bobby & The Midnites show?

Which one of you will admit to being there?

I'll gladly admit to attending a few Bobby & The Midnites shows. The band I saw had Billy Cobham and Alphonso Johnson as the rhythm section. Not too shabby. The shows I saw weren't epic but they were pretty good. They did some cool covers like the Heptones 'Book of Rules', the Coasters 'Youngblood' and a few others.

[groovy1967]

I think much of an individuals response to viewing will be generational. People of my age were brought up in a time when we were proud to be "Americans" and what our country had just helped to accomplish on the world stage was a point of pride. The notion of "I want to live in America" or be an "American" was a given. As time went on it became a rite of passage and a point of honor to distrust, dislike and disdain all things American....but not of course to the point of becoming an ex-patriot.
Patriotism is about as un-hip as it gets in most of the popular culture unless something like 9/11 occurs and then there is an short lived time frame where it becomes all right to "rally around the flag", but that is short lived. As I started with, I think that is just a generational thing for the most part and I am not attempting to make demons or belittle people who have just grown up in a certain epoch. I am decidedly "not hating" just some random thoughts that occurred.

At the risk of getting into the political debate you desire, I'll say this much and then move on for the day.

I recognize this video. It looks like the way I remember the 1980s, full of ham-fisted patriotism. It's just a bunch of empty slogans, and the first thing it makes me think of is the way everyone, especially Reagan, co-opted Springsteen's "Born In the USA" as a patriotic anthem. Many years later, I learned that song had a very different meaning.

I don't believe it's become "a rite of passage and a point of honor to distrust, dislike and disdain all things American." However, as time has gone on, more and more of America's dirty secrets have been exposed. We've learned that this country hasn't always done right by the rest of the world, let alone its own citizens. The idealism of yesteryear has been shattered, and now people openly question our government's motives. This happens on both sides of the aisle. At times, it's very counter-productive, but I'd rather be in search of the truth than blindly following what our leaders say. I'm sure you'd agree.

Dissent isn't anti-American. Dissent is as American as it gets. Dissent is the foundation of this country.

Perhaps some do not appreciate how this country affords us the opportunity to openly disagree with and question the intent of our leaders, but I think most Americans understand how we have a very unique set of rights that cannot be found elsewhere. After all, as you noted, there is a reason why so few permanently leave this country.

As for whether or not patriotism is hip, I don't think anyone on this particular board knows much about what is hip, but many of us do like Tower of Power.

[duende]

And always good to see gear re-purposing in action - unless I'm misjudging Bobby Cochran not being an Ibanez custom shop endorsee...