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  • Originally posted by bennyboy View Post
    And really how can you be a Deadhead and not count "Throwing Stones" a song written directly about Dick Cheney? That ones pretty political if you ask me and def chooses a side.

    I always thought the Dead were the American Dream. I always thought they were pretty political as well. Just not in a "Give Peace a Chance" Way. Not as obvious (except for Throwin' stones) but still political. Morning Dew? Song about Nuke war. Cream Puff War? US Blooze? Standing on the Moon has some serious politics too......I think there is certain GD gestalt and I am always surprised when I meet a real deadhead who is not a liberal. (only happened a few times in my life) I know a ton of casual listener people who went to a show and had their minds blown, but that don't make you a deadhead. Seems the more conservative their viewpoint the longer it has been since they saw them (or smoked pot or experienced psychedelics) or anyone newer than the period where they were into new music.
    I think you are reading things into these songs that aren't there for the most part. For starters, "Morning Dew" is not even a Grateful Dead original. I don't see a shred of politics in "Cream Puff War," and except for the "Run your life" line, I don't see how anything in "U.S. Blues" could be construed as remotely political.

    I'll agree that "Throwin' Stones" and "Standing on the Moon" contain some political comment, but more so in an apolitical, observational way. Even that does cut against the content of Jerry's quote above, though; and I recall being somewhat surprised about that at the time. IIRC, his quote occurred quite some time earlier, and was mostly in the context of explaining why the Dead weren't writing anti-war songs in the 60s and 70s, when many of their peers were.

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    • Pretty well known that Throwin' Stones is written directly about Dick Cheney. Barlow has said it many times. Google it. Shippafuckingfools? Directly about NIXON. Hunter said that then and says it now. I'll give you cream puff war< I am actually unfamiliar with the lyrics having never heard it for forty years. And Morning Dew is always political song. ALWAYS. Especially during the cold war and the bomb shelter period. Every band did it, and there was no doubt that it was political.

      Uncle John's? "their motto is don't tread on me" .... Right now I see a teabagger rally with the Morans guy waving a confederate flag.....

      Then we have Jerry who played many political songs with his bands.

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      • US blues is absolute sarcasm. The movie bears that out as being political political goes. Again, not "Save the Whales" but it does suggest a certain gestalt.

        that's the beauty of the songwriting, it is open to interpretation always and that is open to revision, always. it is not literal, it far more subtle and is probably not intentional (well sometimes). The world they live in is pretty liberal, even libertarian,, they all have those values and that reflects in the songwriting. (yes I know that Barlow was once a Republican)......

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        • Goes to show, you don't ever know...

          Originally posted by bennyboy View Post
          Pretty well known that Throwin' Stones is written directly about Dick Cheney. Barlow has said it many times.
          Learn something new every day, as apparently John Barlow was actually a campaign coordinator for good ol' Deadeye Dick Cheney back in 1978 when he (Cheney) was running for Congress.

          I'll bet the deposits on the empties that those two polished off during one of their "strategy meetings" could pay for a shiny new Predator Drone.

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          • I don't know that "Throwing Stones" is written about Dick Cheney but it was written because of Dick Cheney.

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            • AD: What is the story behind “Throwing Stones”? You wrote that in Cora as well, right?

              JPB: Yeah. That’s the only explicitly political song we ever wrote. And the story behind that was that I was having a serious argument with Dick Cheney at that point, who I’d help get elected and been a pretty good congressman for the stuff that I was interested in, which was environmental stuff. We’d helped stop acid rain in the Wind River Mountains and passed the Wyoming Wilderness Act together and worked out a lot of the necessary compromises. He fished on my ranch and…we were co-conspirators.

              But then he got into this obsession with the Russians and this conviction that we had a clash of cultures that had to be resolved by whatever means, and so he helped base the MX Missile in Wyoming. The original idea of the MX Missile was that it was a second-strike, retaliatory weapon that could not be taken out by a first strike because it would be running around on a vast railroad system kind of like a gigantic shell game, so the Russians wouldn’t know where the MX’s were. And the MX itself is an extremely destructive instrument. It has ten warheads, each one of which delivers 550 kilotons of explosive energy. And just for purposes of comparison, the bomb that completely leveled Hiroshima and took out half a million people in a second had only seventeen kilotons to give you some idea. So you can to the math. That’s just one missile. And the plan was to base 100 of them. And Dick was instrumental in seeing to it that they were not based in the original basing formula, which made them explicitly second strike, but that they were basically first strike weapons. They were completely naked and stationary and they were all put on launch on warning. And had all of those missiles gone, because some cloud of geese flew over a radar in Greenland, that would’ve been the end of all like on the planet. And I got so freaked out that somebody was so determined to win a political battle that he was literally willing to endanger all the life on planet Earth, that I felt like I had to say something…so I wrote that song. And like I say, I owe Dick a lot for that song.

              snip

              http://www.planetjh.com/davis/davis_2005_07_27.html

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              • Originally posted by marignygreg View Post
                Yeah, but Groovy is much too smart to take the bait.....which disproves his point.
                There's a first for everything.

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                • I don't have anything to say but I feel left out.

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                  • http://www.dc101.com/articles/music-...yrus-12085809/



                    Now see, here is a guy who I've always thought was an idiot and who's fans I think are idiots.( Nugentitis of the brain) .

                    Yes, I do believe that I can tell more aobut a person by looking through their music, or playing with them, than talking to them. And usually theri beliefs tend to mirror those of the music they like the most.


                    So you do kind of align with the people you like. My parents, they liked religious music, my dad loved "Onward Christian soldiers" in particular. So they had that viewpoint.

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                    • Originally posted by bennyboy View Post
                      http://www.dc101.com/articles/music-...yrus-12085809/



                      Now see, here is a guy who I've always thought was an idiot and who's fans I think are idiots.( Nugentitis of the brain) .

                      Yes, I do believe that I can tell more aobut a person by looking through their music, or playing with them, than talking to them. And usually theri beliefs tend to mirror those of the music they like the most.


                      So you do kind of align with the people you like. My parents, they liked religious music, my dad loved "Onward Christian soldiers" in particular. So they had that viewpoint.
                      Maybe, maybe not. I remember the Dead cancelling some shows so they could attend Wagner's Ring Cycle in San Francisco. Did that make them anti-Semitic?

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                      • Originally posted by Jim View Post
                        Maybe, maybe not. I remember the Dead cancelling some shows so they could attend Wagner's Ring Cycle in San Francisco. Did that make them anti-Semitic?
                        nice reach on that one. I too saw the Ring Cycle. Fabulous.

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                        • Originally posted by bennyboy View Post
                          nice reach on that one. I too saw the Ring Cycle. Fabulous.
                          I was just following your logic. Seriously, I understand what you're saying. I'd like to see the Ring Cycle sometime.

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                          • Originally posted by Jim View Post
                            I was just following your logic. Seriously, I understand what you're saying. I'd like to see the Ring Cycle sometime.
                            What is funny is that when the Dead rescheduled the dates and gave the reason I was "hey I wanna go to that". I knew nothing really about Wagner, the Ring, or Opera. I just knew, cool enough for them, cool enough for me.

                            I called my uncle whom I knew had season tix and he gave me a pair for one cycle. My mind was blown. Loved the sets, the whole big story and the little stories. Loved how time changed between the operas.

                            . It's been back to SF and I haven't tried to go back and revisit, nor have i ever sought out any other operas.....If that is all the opera I ever see I think I will have seen the one everyone should see.

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                            • 37 years ago today!

                              that's quite a first set when you consider two all timers made their debut

                              1st Terrapin, 1st Estimated, 1st show of 1977

                              February 26, 1977 Swing Auditorium
                              San Bernardino, CA


                              I: Terrapin Station, Minglewood Blues, They Love Each Other, Estimated Prophet, Sugaree, Mama Tried, Deal, Playing In The Band > The Wheel > Playing In The Band

                              II: Samson & Delilah, Tennessee Jed, Music Never Stopped, Help On The Way > Slipknot > Franklin's Tower, Promised Land, Eyes Of The World > Dancing In The Streets > Around and Around

                              E: U.S. Blues
                              https://archive.org/details/gd1977-0...steve.253.shnf

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                              • Friend of the Devil....China Cats with Melvin Seals...too many CFW.....

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdE94DeN4CQ

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